United Public Domain Gold 2/United Public Domain Gold 2.iso/utilities/pu637.dms/pu637.adf/PARA389

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                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 389

                            Tuesday, April 9th 1991

Today's Topics:

                              The Grey Men Tape (4)
                              The Grey Men Tape (5)
                              The Grey Men Tape (6)
                                   Disclaimer
                                Re: A SETI Update
                      ''The Search For Schroedinger's Cat''
                                 Serios Business
                                 Belgian Reports
                          physics, orders of magnitude
                           Re: Gravitational magnetism
                                     Re: Koa
                                    Ivan Sanderson
                                 SERIOS BUSINESS
                     Question from a UFOlogy Sig User - Help
                                     Re: Koa

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From: [e-mail] (Gregory B Lush)
Subject: The Grey Men Tape (4)
Date: 8 Apr 91 22:15:26 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Gregory B Lush)

                        WATCH THE HANDS

We are going to now consider currency on a world basis.  We will also point
out why some of the monetary plans and money making formats are valid and
viable.

Let us speak a bit about Mr. Marcos who was recently deposed from the
Phillipines.  This is most typical, friends, so watch the hands closely.
A representative of the international bankers' bank went to those ones and
said, 'Mr. Marcos, we will forgive all of your loans.  You cannot pay them
back, you cannot pay back the interest, you can't pay back the principle,
but, we would like to make you a bargain.  We will just forgive the loans.'

Digress time: remember, who did that money belong to that they loaned out
to these third world places?  It was not the bankers'.  Well, of course,
it was all that Arab money, because of the higher prices that the people all
over the world had paid.  So, back to what the bankers say, 'We'll just
forgive your loans, the principle and the interest and you never have
to pay it back--IF (ALWAYS THE IF)--.  The 'if' goes about as follows:
You have to do away with your national currency, whatever it is.  The dollar
will be your currency basis of value.  You will be set up with a type of
debit card system instead of the usual currency system.  Then, too, you
must give us perpetual rights to all of the natural resources in your
country.

Interestingly enough, it was right after that little gift gesture; that
friendly little suggestion, that Mr. Marcos was deposed.  Why do you
suppose that happened?  Well, Mr. Marcos was pretty feisty and he told the
international bankers where they could go right after they got immediately
out of his country.  He had no intention of giving them sovereignty
over his country and look what happened.

Everyone in that country found that suddenly their social security number
was synonymous with their credit number; further, their central bank
was to act as a wholesaler for credit, which in turn, was extended to it by
the new super bank which was announced by your Mr. Paul Volker in the fall
of 1985.  That was ratified immediately by President Reagan.  Just a fun
aside for you who love to play with numbers and speculate about
coincidence--the names and numbers, the digits, added up to six.  Lots of
things around Mr. Reagan add up to sixes--even his retirement home address.
I take very little stock in these things, but many of you seem to like the
game.  Also, because a President is not reelected does not mean he is
vanquished from the fray.

A further contingent condition of the benevolent gift, if you will, of the
International Monetary Fund, was that in order to help the economy of
those countries the IMF was going to nominate external, nondomestic
corporations to properly engineer, exploit and excavate the minerals of
those said countries who had just put those same mineral resources up as
collateral.  This would all, thereby, supposedly bring prosperity to those
striving nations.

Mr. Marcos was a bit sharper up front, however, and he pinpointed on the
word PERPETUAL in the contract.  He realized that quite obviously he would be
signing away the sovereignty of his nation.

I make no comment or judgement regarding Mr. Marcos as a person, nor do
I make comment about any individual--those ones are of human format, not
mine.  I am just telling you the way it is and how some things happened.

In the case of the Marcoses, it was only a matter of weeks before the
bankers brought down the guillotine blade.  Riots were financed by, and
originated through, ones of the international bankers' groups.  It is never
humanly wise to cross these ones; you see Mr. and Mrs. Marcos were
exploiting the people well enough on their own and did not wish to share.

                           WHERE DID THE MONEY GO?

Ah, let us not forget those holding companies of which I spoke.  Remember
holding companies one and holding companies two?  The second
group was receiving credit from the first group of holding companies to
purchase assets and liabilities from the 'prime' banks.  The only liabilities
they would purchase were liabilities represented by Certificates of Deposits
of the Arab nations.  The assets they were buying were loans made to the
debtor nations.  Remember, it was designed that third world countries would
default on the loans which would bankrupt the holding companies which
had purchased the Arab's CD's from the banks.

At such a point, the internation bankers say to the Arabs, 'OK fellows,
sorry, but all those billions of dollars in 30 year term deposits that
you have been depositing all these years are gone.  They were sold to a holding
company, unattached to us, which loaned the money to third world countries
which are bankrupt--broke--gone kaput.  Sorry, Mr. Arab, but as of today
you are bankrupt.  Just like that--all gone!'

You might ask, 'Is it possible for the Arab world to go bankrupt?  Really
now, the richest people in the world with all that oil?'  It is a little
bit shocking isn't it?  Poor souls, they didn't even know those CD's had
been 'sold' to those holding companies.  They had deposited the money right
into the New York bank as required.  How could they possibly know they were
transferred out and into bankruptcy destined companies?  How could they
understand the inner manipulations of international financiers?  They were
nomads, they didn't know anything about business.  One cannot even consider
them foolish.  How much of this intrigue do you know, much less understand?
The Arabs could not know what they were up against.  But now let us look at
what has happened.  Before the end of 1986 the Arab world became a bit aware
of what was happening to them.  The word went out that before May 1st, 1987
millions and millions had to be transferred out of the Arab world into
America, to start preparing for doomsday.  Money was to be shifted into any
kind of securities that were even half way decent.  Why do you think this
was so?  It was so that when the Arab sheiks came to the point of
bankruptcy they could be sure the people under them, those millions of
people of the Arab countries who have literally been 'kept' by give-away
programs, could not get at them.  They would have a place to run to and,
hopefully, hide.  Well, when this all comes down that these Arab countries
have literally been sold out, innocently or knowingly, there will be uprisings,
turmoil and literally, massacres abounding.  It is going to happen, friends,
right in the Arab nations.

This is why they have purchased, and set in place, silkworm type missiles
from China.  Long range, nuclear capable, and they have the nuclear devices
to arm them.  Could it be they will be needed against their own peoples?
The people are going to be quite irritated when the are no longer receiving
anything from the oil revenues, that their own country is bankrupt and that
further, they were sold out by their own leaders.  At that point there will
be mass migration of sheiks headed for America where they have already
transferred the most of their assets.

The Arabs were trying to make the big purchases by May of 1988; it is
now a year and a half later.  Do you not think things might be starting
to come down pretty soon?  Could it be relatively correlated in timing to
Savings and Loan problems and private pension plan troubles and failing
economy and - and -?

I continue to see problems as I look on my scanners.  The probability of you
making it into your 1990 before a major depression is not reflected there.
I see no way for you to make it past your fall season.

You only need a couple more countries to default and your monetary system
will collapse.  You sit on the target for several methods of pulling you
down into collapse.  Well, back to the original story.

We are talking of holding companies in trouble.  The international bankers
have removed responsibility from themselves.  They passed the notes, etc.
on to the holding companies who in turn made the bad loans.  All that money
belonging to the Arabs has been passed into the holding companies.  All
the international bankers have to do is say to the Arabs, 'You are broke.
As of today--all gone!'  When the Arabs demand payment of the 30 year term
notes, the holding companies are insolvent--simple as that, no funds--broke.

Do you see now, that this group 'made' people some years back and now
they can 'break' them with equal speed and efficiency without being
accountable?

I fear, friends, it is not very different from what is being done
unto you dear ones. BUT, that is another story.

 [Continued Next Message]





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From: [e-mail] (Gregory B Lush)
Subject: The Grey Men Tape (5)
Date: 8 Apr 91 22:33:18 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Gregory B Lush)


Here things began to happen rapidly and with sleight of hand.  There have
followed myriads of liquidations, foreclosures and bankruptcies which were
effected by the FDIC and FSLIC which are under the total control of the
Federal Reserve Board.  Literally dozens of banks all over America quickly
were, and are, being bought up.  But the big question is by whom?  Who has
the money in sufficient amounts to make such purchases?  The great sums come
from the higher oil price money that goes to the Arabs, the
deposited into the international bankers' banks.  The banks being purchased
are then intentionally closed.  Some of those banks are still solvent.
They are also buying up farm land throughout America through the farmers who are
now being put into bankruptcy because of the high American dollar (in relation-
ship to foreign currency).  At least this is the way it was up to a year or so
ago--it is fluctuating somewhat at the present time for other heinous things
are under way which are the next step in the plan.  I shall not go into those
things in this document for I intend to do a document relative to your
economies.  First, let us consider what is happening now and has been, for your
past few years--a lot of things are being done now through the Oriental
communities.  Ah so?

                           WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

What happens next after this point in insolvency and negotiations, is that
the assets would have to be liquidated.  The Arabs now have to liquidate.
They bought farmland, for instance, all over America.  Likewise they
bought stocks in a lot of corporations as well as a lot of bonds and some
other kinds of real estate.  In fact, they have controlled a large portion
of the New York Stock Exchange.  Keep in mind the Japanese control a large
portion, also.

Let us look at the morning following the notice of bankruptcy.  The Arabs
will dump their stocks onto the New York Stock Exchange and what is going to
happen when billions of dollars worth of their stock comes on the market?
I am talking billions and billions of dollars and, suddenly, there it
all is to be sold!

What happens to farmland that is already depressed?  In 1987 prime farmland
that had been worth $3,000 an acre was less than $700 per acre because
of deflation and the inability to repay farm loans.  Now you have added
drought and all sorts of other bad dreams.  By the way, this deflation was
brought about by your Federal Reserve System.  Well, the Arabs don't want
that farmland, they have all the problems they can handle.  What happens
to the price of farmland?  It is going right to the floor isn't it?
Brothers, when that happens with the value what does it mean?  It means
it has no collateral value any longer.  With no collateral value, how can
a farmer borrow money next year for his crops?  In turn, what happens
to the crops?  Who is going to feed the people?  What is going to happen
in the grocery markets?  The results, of course, equates to hunger and
scarce supply.  Sad, brothers, but it is a well laid plan working to
perfection.

It all boils down to CONTROL and how do you ever recover.  Further, let us
look at you stock situation.  What is going to happen when these
multitudes of stocks are dumped on the stock market?  Chaos.  What
will be the result of catastrophic chaos?  IT HAS BEEN DESIGNED
TO THROW THE AMERICAN STOCK EXCHANGES, PRIVATE CORPORATIONS, PRIVATE
BUSINESS, AMERICAN REAL ESTATE AND QUITE FRANKLY, THE PEOPLE IN GENERAL,
INTO A STATE OF TOTAL CONFUSION.  TO THE RESCUE! Let me finish the
plan for you.  At the time of total confusion and inability to function,
those benevolent bankers are going to come through with a 'save the world
proposal'.  They are going to be prepared to eliminate
cash because of its collapse.  Secondarily, they must then stop drug
trafficking.  Then, they must also push to stop tax cheating.  Now, what
self respecting American citizen can possibly be against such noble efforts?
They (the bankers) have set up and orchestrated all of these programs and now
will pretend to stop them.

What will the average American do when your television says, 'Look at
what those dirty Arabs have done to you?'  What would you do?  You are
going to believe what they tell you, aren't you?  You are going to be right
up there in front saying 'Sure they did it to us.  Those Arabs want to
control the world.'  Pretty soon it will be, 'Those Japanese want to control
the whole world,' and then, 'The Chinese want to control the whole world."
You will join the chant that says, 'Look they bought up all this major part
of America.  Look at all the money we have given them, and see what they have
done.  They have collapsed our stock market, et cetera and so on'.

Ah ha, but here come your benevolent bankers and they are going to say to you,
'You have got to have a new currency and then the next thing we will do
is use that new currency to stop this dope trafficking.  You know, that which
is coming in from Central America and those other countries.  Then, of
course, we are also going to have to have a debit card to stop people from
tax cheating because, after all, Mr. Public, if we don't do this we will
never get ourselves back on our feet.  So, brothers, if you'll just turn
everything over to us benevolent bankers we will take care of everything
and straighten out the whole mess.'  You know what, brethren?  You will
hop on that bandwagon and agree to your imprisonment like babes to candy.
You will not only agree to it; you will demand it.  For you will forget to
hear the big IF.  'YOU WILL GET ALL THIS DONE FOR YOU IF YOU WILL JUST TAKE
A DEBIT CARD FOR YOU INDIVIDUALLY WITH OUR LITTLE OLD NUMBER ON IT!'
YOU WILL HAVE JUST FALLEN FOR THE OLD IDENTIFICATION CARD SCHEME.

HOW CAN THIS HAPPEN TO YOU?  BECAUSE YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TOLD THE TRUTH,
FRIENDS, AND WILL YOU BELIEVE IT NOW AS I GIVE IT TO YOU?  NO, MOST OF YOU
WILL DISCOUNT ME AS A FIGMENT OF SOME NUT'S (GBL's?) WILD IMAGINATION.
SO BE IT FOR I AM GREATLY SADDENED FOR YOU AS A SPECIES.

                            THE NEW CURRENCY

This has been a scenario about the Middle East.  Where do you think you are
today and what do you think you will be when you have this new currency?
It will only devaluate the old 'dollar' to zero.  It is planned already and
named already; the Phoenix.  A little prior to this, there is a plan to bring
forth an international credit card ID.  Let us refer to it as a
government ID card with your social security number on it which would
be, and get this because the next is important, satellite linked through
the Star Wars system.  Does any of this sound familiar to you?  This
program of Star Wars is at least 60% geared towards this very purpose
and only 40% for the claimed defense systems, etc.

This major space linkup will facilitate the transmission of banking
information throughout the world instantly.  This would be a debit card
with a number which would be required for you to do business, and friends,
if you know anything at all about your Biblical prophecies, God has
already told you it will be, it will take place.  Further, it will be
done in such a clever way that you 'Christians' who say you will NEVER
sign up nor participate will never see it hit you and you will have
joined the program without even realizing it.  How else are you going to
survive?  Let us not be foolish in our claims for you are dealing with the
most clever planners who have out thought you completely up to this date.

Now, I hope you will believe me when I tell you that the 'Star Wars'
program of satellite systems is in place.  Satellites are up there,
friends.  We of other planets are allowed to stop nuclear warheads--we are not
permitted to touch satellites which are not geared to some type of
nuclear detonation.

Well, all those wonder filled bits of technology called eyes in the sky
and spy satellites 'for you security' are really for
the purpose of transfer of the very banking and income information which
I have just been describing.  It can set up immediate transfer of funds from
all over the entire world, from the debit card, that the internationalists
will see to it are established with every living person.  You will be on the
system whether you know it or not.  In fact, you who are old enough to read
these words--and every child--is already entered therein.

All information will be entered into a central computer and from that place
the world will come under instant financial control.  So, dear Americans,
you have just paid you hard earned money to finance that program to
initiate the bankers' international credit card system and number system
that will be implemented whether or not you choose of it.  IT IS DONE,
BROTHERS, IT IS PLACE--DONE!  DON'T TELL ME YOU WILL NOT PARTICIPATE-
-YOU  ARE ALREADY A PARTICIPANT, DEAR LITTLE ONES.

Oh yes, what of your defense system?  Doesn't look too good does it?
Well, we are not going to let those nuclear warheads out here in out
space past one hundred fifty miles anyway.  That is our prerogative
and we stop them or dismantle them.

    [Continued Next Article]




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From: [e-mail] (Gregory B Lush)
Subject: The Grey Men Tape (6)
Date: 8 Apr 91 22:34:27 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Gregory B Lush)


                              HEAR ME

Do you not see, brothers, that this is the way the prophecies are coming
into your focus?  It is happening all about you but you don't seem to
know what it is you look for.

Please, all I want you to do at present is HEAR ME.  There is naught you
can do about it to any great extent as it stands.

You who will hear me and mine own groups, hear me.  You must utilize all
of the remaining time to its maximum efficiency for we will have to continue
to work under the new systems.  Our projects will never be less than
excellent investments and they must, and will, be funded.  It needs to be done
rapidly, however, before we are caught up in the total collapse of the monetary
system.  We can work through depression if we have fundings--monetary
collapse shuts us down for all practical purposes, until the system can be
put on track and functioning.

It can work and will work, for in these confused, rushed and harassed days
there is great madness to shift money and make money on money and etc.
Countries such as China, Japan--all non hard currency countries are desperate
to convert to dollars.

I will further tell you that your governments know we are here.  They also
know we are not here to interfere.  We are here to walk our people through
a transition and we plan nothing subversive. We do plan good business
ventures and welcome all who wish to participate.  We have no communes,
all word for fair reward.  We plan good business with total integrity
and latest technology.  We are here to help, not overthrow.  We are here
only to walk our brothers through, for it will all come down just as the
prophecies are given.  There will be some very bad times ahead most
surely if plans are not made for those days of tribulation.

Let me speak a bit more regarding 'timing'.  I know that what I
have said is truth.

It was confirmed by top sources in Switerland that by October of last year
there were twelve debtor nations who had agreed to the proposal of debt
forgiveness in exchange for perpetual consignment of natural resources.
There only need to be one or two more that give enough leverage to announce
the Arabs bankrupt.  As of now, all the top leaders in the Arab world know
the story and they are scared to death about it.  They don't know what they
are going to do about it; there is actually nothing they can do about it.
They certainly do not know how to announce it to their populace.  There
doesn't seem to be any way to get the information out to the people.

Further, no one knows how to announce all this to the American people.
It has been attempted by some and fallen on deaf ears.  I hope that by
the time many of you have read this document, there will be recognition
of our presence in your space.  What I tell you is truth.

                         IN SUMMARY

I would like now, to sum up this scenario.

Because the 20 to 1  debt to asset banking ratio also operates in reverse
(that's how it is with leverage), it only takes about five percent
of the the third world nations to declare bankruptcy and when they do,
and they accept the plan of the international bankers, then the bankers can
declare the bank holding companies bankrupt.  Because of the reverse
leverage of the loans, only 5% of the third world countries could
basically declare the world bankrupt and the ownership of all falls to the
international bankers.

When this program is initiated and in place, it will wind up with the
international bankers owning all mortgages and all properties.  What
is that going to do to your country?  What about the world?  What control
will they have when they initiate the debit card?  It will be an automatic
number which will be given and would be required because the country
is devastated.

It would then result that the international bankers, who are made up of
all these secret and complex committees I have previously discussed,
would now own the majority of the United States and most other countries
(for all will fall in short order), would control the Arab world and
therefore, by about a thirty year plan of manipulation, will have
brought the peoples of the world under control.

Two years ago, your Senator George Hansen said you had only about a year
to get this under control, to get the information out and do something
about it.  Well, your year has passed into two and a half.  How much have
you heard about it?  I doubt very much.  Brothers, this is how men make
slaves of their fellow men.

It has, however, been prophesied since the beginning of your world that these
things would come to pass.  This statement is not to give you negative
feelings.  This is to tell you that you are IN the time of evolution of
your planet where these things are now coming to be.

I go through all this that you might recognize the signs which are all
around you.  The time, in your perception of time, is fleeting.  The 'time'
we call sequence of events--is fleeting.  We have much to do and we
are here ad available to assist you one of God and the children of
you planet called Earth Terra.  You are a sister planet to we of the
Pleiades.  Many of our ones walk among you.  There are many duties and jobs
that must now be finished.

The story, the work, will go out for that is God's promise to man.  His
promise is to allow man to hear and to see, followed by proof.  He will
send these things through us of the space brotherhood.

These things shall be documented and sent forth to man so that man can see
what he wishes to do--what choices he wishes to make regarding his divinity.
I am going to leave this portion now, that you ones can ponder these things.

We come in love and we can see farther than you.  We have access to all
records, so we can see and know.  We can give assistance if we are so
petitioned.  And you might ask, 'Why would you ones do that?'  Because
Father God the Totality, the Light which is your Source and My Source
loved you enough to send forth His Celestial Son, before us.  We now serve
that same 'Son' who is our Commander and act in His service.

Further, for you who are our brothers, we will not leave you stranded on
that place.  Ye who do not yet know me, will come to understanding our
presence.  I leave mine seal and my blessings on this portion, which I fear
is quite lengthy.  Please ponder is several times until you have
understanding for it is most important.

Go Dharma, it has been such a terribly long session for you.  Turn the
papers over to the others that you may get some rest.

Salu, Salu, Salu        Hatonn moving to stand-by.

     <The End - Grey Men Tape>





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From: [e-mail] (sm)
Subject: Disclaimer
Date: 9 Apr 91 06:48:00 GMT

The preceeding postings concerning the Phoenix Journals do not necessarily
reflect the opinion of the ParaNet Information Service.  It is provided as a
public service in the interest of fairness and research.  Thank you to Mr.
Lush for providing them.

ParaNet Information Service

--
ParaNet(sm) Information Service - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: ParaNet(sm)[e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Re: A SETI Update
Date: 6 Apr 91 00:19:00 GMT

va>+Silvio Conte (R-MA): 'We don't need to spend $6 million
va>this year
va>+to  find  evidence of these rascally creatures. We only
va>need  75
va>+cents  to  buy  a tabloid at the  local  supermarket.
va>Conclusive
va>+evidence  of  these  crafty critters can  be  found  at
va>checkout
va>+counters  from coast to coast. [Mr. Conte then entered
va>into  the
va>+Congressional   Record  five  articles  on  UFOs   from
va>tabloid
va>+publications.]


How amusing for him!  Of course, Conte became greatly exercised the
following week, when the media called his attempted murder of the NASA SETI
appropriation "The Search For Congressional Intelligence".

Still you can't blame Silvio -- $6 million spent unraveling the secrets of
the universe is $6 million that won't be here to pay for Congressional
junkets...

va>I had heard Conte was unfriendly to the concept, but I
va>didn't know it was
va>this bad.  But didn't he die a couple months ago?

... only from the neck up.

Why are politicians always such self-serving poltroons?

Best,
  Clark

--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: ''The Search For Schroedinger's Cat''
Date: 6 Apr 91 05:11:00 GMT


 > +If you want to read about other dimensions, try The Search
 > for
 > +Schroedinger's Cat.
 >
 > And after you've done that, read the file REALITY.ASC from
 > KeelyNet, on
 > Bohm's holographic model of the universe and Pribram's
 > holographic model of
 > the mind.  Excellent work!  (Maybe Clark or I should post it,
 > although it's
 > not UFO-related.  Comments?)
 >


Jim, you're a mind-reader!  I am planning to follow up on the
posting of the Gravity Coil with a posting of REALITY!

There was only limited response to the gravity coil post, but it was
scholarly & interesting.  Bohm's paper should be at least as
provocative, eh?

Best,
  Clark

--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Serios Business
Date: 6 Apr 91 05:33:00 GMT


 >
 > evidence for fraud, and many hundreds of photographs as
 > evidence
 > of Serios' 'talents.' One of the key evidential factors was
 > the
 > *distortions* of space and time in many of the photos --
 > 'dream-like' or "imagination-like" distortions and seamless
 > composite images that positively could not have been faked by
 > any
 > mechanical means under the circusmtances. Also, many photos
 > were
 > made with the cameras at quite some distance from Serios, and
 > in the
 > hands of the investigators. Some of the pictures appeared as
 > if
 > taken from 'impossible' angles; from places where the cameras
 > had
 > never been positioned. There's more, too. *Much* more.
 > Including a
 > lot of pictures not previously published.
 >

Hi!  This message exchange is very interesting!  I wonder, is anyone
familiar with the collection of "ghost" or "spirit" photos in the
possession of the Warrens of Monroe Connecticut?  Yes, I'm talking
about the same Warrens who were involved in the Amityville Horror
fiasco, among other high-profile "hauntings", exorcisms, etc.

Some of their photos are really remarkable -- often they're "bad"
drugstore-type pix taken by people who later realize how very
strange the photos are. Many of the same characteristics of the
Serios photos, including impossible angles, bizarre juxtaposed
images, faces, etc.

I should add that the pictures range in age from 90 years or more to
quite recent.  Whatever you thing about the Warrens' other interests
("demonology", possessions, etc.), the photos are definitely worth a
look.  They take a good sampling of them on their lecture tours.

Best,
  Clark

--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Belgian Reports
Date: 7 Apr 91 21:48:00 GMT


 MC>   Any further information you might
 MC> find on this publication may shed some light on this.

  The entire Tretyak interview was in UFONS, clipped from Literary Gazette,
a Russian publication of some sort. If you're in contact with Antonio
Huneeus he may have more info.

                                                jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Kurt Lochner)
Subject: physics, orders of magnitude
Date: 7 Apr 91 21:25:00 GMT


 To: violet.berkeley.edu!chalmers (John H. Chalmers Jr.)
 >
 > RE Kurt Lochner's comments of 3/25/91: it may have not
 > been clear in my original upload, but the gravitational
 > magnetic field is theorized to be produced by
 > accelerated masses and is only an analog of the EM
 > magnetic field.

Ok, I've seen some other articles about this but still
have yet to drag out a physics text to qualify my remarks
beyond my opinions about this topic....

 > Forward's General Relativistic anti-gravity reactor is
 > meant as an example of why I consider
 > space-warps and anti-gravity devices to be improbable
 > with human scale technology. Neither he nor I consider
 > them very possible.

I do consider some of this possible, but not to very
dramatic proportions, if any.

 > The toroid must be wound with a hollow tube as it is a
 > stellar mass of nuclear density , not electrons, that
 > has to flow through it.

Why bother with a tube to contain the stellar mass?

 > I appreciate your point about the Planck
 > mass, but I believe I am right that the gravitational
 > coupling constant is 38 or 40 ord mag's less than that
 > of the EM (or Strong Nuclear force) and the
 > permeability of space is very low to the g field,
 > so very large moving masses are necessary.

That scale of magnitude doesn't apply here and is,
I believe, due to a typo in a Popular Science article.
I'll make it a point to examine some physics texts.

 > One more point: Kurt's reply implies that I might
 > think '_gravity is a resultant of space and time._'
 > I didn't respond to this statement when originally
 > made by another member on the net because I
 > don't understand what it means.

Don't worry about it, even Einstein had problem with
that particular concept, heheh.....

 > I follow the orthodox view that gravity is due to the
 > curvature of space-time and that it should be
 > formalizable as a relativistic QM theory involving the
 > exchange of spin-2 gravitons.

I don't.

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Kurt Lochner - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Kurt Lochner)
Subject: Re: Gravitational magnetism
Date: 7 Apr 91 21:47:00 GMT


 >
 >      I got the impression that the mass goes through
 > the toroid, not the coils.
 >
He's written back that the stellar mass goes through the
coils and that the mass/movement is the cause of this
gravitational magnetism.

 >      What are "Planck energy values"?

Values of energies present at the birth of our universe.

 >  Where did you get the numbers 10^19 to 10^28?

A. Zee, Gravity, an Old Man's Toy.
 >
 >      The 10e40 value for comparative field strength of
 > the EM force over the gravitational force comes from a
 > comparison of the field strengths for specific particles.

Yes, but that's a misapplication of the forces involved with
the scale of distances being used to carry this discussion.

 >  >>         Physicists at Stanford and elsewhere are
 >  >> planning experiments on a satellite in the next decade
 >  >> to test for the existence of the protational field.
 >
 >  KL> I'll have to look this term up, never heard it before.
 >
 >      It's new to me too. Let me know what you find.
 >
I'll be looking into this soon, will report back....

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From: [e-mail] (Frank Ward)
Subject: Re: Koa
Date: 9 Apr 91 04:53:28 GMT

Michael, is there any chance of getting a transript of the KOA show??  Might
be interesting....
Frank

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Frank Ward - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: mtus5.bitnet!REVJIM
Subject:      Ivan Sanderson
Date: 9 Apr 91 17:11:12 GMT

From: [e-mail]

Among being a UFO buff, I am also a sort of Bigfoot, etc. fanatic,
and the name 'Ivan Sanderson' rings a bell from that arena.  Going
by memory, I think he was an investigator in the late 60's in the
Washington area, possibly associated with such Bigfoot related
personell as Rene Dahinden (sp?) and Roger Patterson.
Does this make sense?
James




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From: well.sf.ca.us!ddrasin
Subject: SERIOS BUSINESS
Date: 9 Apr 91 17:12:00 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Dan Drasin)

+ From: Pete.Porro . Subject: Re: SERIOS BUSINESS

+ Arthur C. Clark pretty well says this was a con job, using the tube
+ for holding small parts of photos.

To get the results Serios has gotten by means of 'small parts of
photos' in a tube would be at least as extraordinary a feat as getting
the results psychically.

It is one thing to say that such-and-such a phenomenon *might* be
explain*able* in such-and-such a way (that is, if you ignore certain
critical facts), and quite another to say it has *been explained*. If
Clarke really did dismiss this case on the basis of such naive
speculation he has behaved disgracefully.


Dan Drasin
[e-mail]




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From: cwns1.ins.cwru.edu!aa440
Subject: Question from a UFOlogy Sig User - Help
Date: 9 Apr 91 17:13:47 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Dale Wedge)


Got a few questions here from a user on the Cleveland Free-Net that
I thought I would pass on to you.  I have not followed alot of the
subjects that this person asked me, so I thought that I would ask
the masses on ParaNet.

Anyways, these questions were posted to me on Sat Apr 6, 1991.  I have
edited some of them because of spelling errors.

1. In Area S-4 (The Dark Side of the Moon) the Apollo Astronauts photo-
   graphed a lunar base manned by earthmen as well as Alien beings, can
   this be confirmed by anyone in authority other than the government?

   My answer was that I thought that S-4 was the alledged base out west
   in the desert where the government and aliens were sharing a facility
   based upon an agreement with the U.S. and the alien culture.  I do not
   believe any of this, but this is what I thought had been reported.

2. What is/was Project Redlight and Project Snowbird?

   I know that you guys know this one.

3. Does the 'National Reconnaissance Organization' still exist, and what
   can they tell us about UFO activities?

   I never heard of it, have you?

4. Can you shed any light on 'D.U.M.B.' (Deep Underground Military Bases)?

   I'm sure that we have them for national security.  But the jest of the
   question had to do with if there was any connection between D.U.M.B.
   and UFOs?

5. Has the military/UFO activities in and around Mt. Shasta taken the place
   of 'Big Rock Calif.' as a UFO landing site?

   No comment from me here.  How about you?

6. This is a long one.  How can the assassination of President Kennedy/MJ-
   12/The Council of Foreign Relations/The Joint Alien, U.S., U.S.S.R/The
   Deaths and or disappearance of prominate civilian and military people
   and the manned base on the moon connect?

   Hey, this question has all the makings of a book!!!

Well, those are the questions that I got.  I was looking for someone with
diplomatic means to help answer some of them.  Remember, we are here to
educate, not put people down.

Best, Dale B. Wedge




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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Re: Koa
Date: 9 Apr 91 18:53:00 GMT


 > Michael, is there any chance of getting a transript of the KOA show??
 > Might be interesting....

I will arrange for one, Frank.  Might take a couple of weeks.

Mike

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